OT Live Streaming Radio 4 News

Budgie ajebay at errichel.co.uk
Fri May 29 02:44:46 PDT 2015

On 27/05/15 20:51, Vangelis forthnet wrote:
> On Tue May 26 10:11:05 BST 2015, Budgie wrote:
>> I listen to Radio 4 using a networked Linn device
>> The Linn device offers various radio channels directly
>> On several occasions recently,
>> the news stream has been interrupted and
>> all I get is a recorded loop telling me that
>> "due to rights restrictions
>> the programme is not available."
>> Is the problem with BBC or Linn?
> On Tue May 26 10:36:25 BST 2015, Derek Kaye wrote:
>> but perhaps someone with a more detailed
>> knowledge of how the streaming works can
> On Tue May 26 21:59:59 BST 2015, Christopher Woods wrote:
>> Some highlights or clips from sporting events
>> may not come with requisite rights to be broadcast online,
>> even when part of a news bulletin
> Hello Budgie, Derek et al :-)
> Earlier this year (I think 't was the end of February),
> the BBC killed off the Windows Media Audio (WMA)
> streams both for Listen Live (Live Radio) and Audio-
> on-Demand; this was an announced move, so no surprise there...
> What wasn't foretold was they'd also switch off the
> Listen Live "Shoutcast AAC" streams...
> Most Internet Radios and other networked devices
> (especially if somewhat old) relied heavily upon those
> discontinued streams; another important detail was
> that those streams were available at two different "flavours":
> 1. UK-only, fed only to UK IPs; this version included
> content (usually sports) with UK-only broadcast rights.
> 2. Overseas, served to the rest of the world.
> That was offered in a significantly lower bandwidth
> and all UK-only content was excluded, blanketed out
> by the "due to rights restrictions... " loop you mentioned.
> The beeb and their "Audio Factory" department have
> replaced the old streams with new ones, employing the
> newer "AppleHLS" streaming methodology (chunked streaming
> over HTTP). HOWEVER, in their infinite wisdom, by doing
> so have effectively cut off all older devices with
> firmware that doesn't support HLS. They claim they had
> warned the main manufacturers of the scheduled changes
> to HLS that would require firmware updates, but there's
> a big controversy over who's to blame for the predicament
> many Internet device owners found themselves into...
> I haven't caught up on this, but at the time of the
> change only some new models of the "Pure" brand were
> HLS enabled...
> As an interim fix (backward compatibility) and only
> for Live Radio, the BBC have generated Shoutcast MP3
> streams, compatible with the majority of older devices.
> HOWEVER, as a cost cutting measure, there exists only one
> universal stream for each BBC Radio Station, @ 128kbps,
> for both the UK & International listeners.
> In a few words, the UK users receive the same stream as overseas
> ones, i.e. the very stream which is devoid of UK-only
> copyrighted content...
> After the intervention of the BBC Radio 3 controller,
> a HD (UK-only) shoutcast AAC stream was reinstated,
> but only until this year's Proms...
> No solution as yet for AOD for "older" devices.
> Those "older" devices, after the cessation of WMA
> and ShoutcastAAC, have fallen back automatically
> (via stream aggregators) to the Shoutcast MP3
> live streams.
> It is my gut feeling your Linn device is using this
> "international" MP3 stream when connecting to Radio 4;
> as Christopher said, content for which no int'l
> streaming rights have been negotiated by the BBC
> is excluded...
> The beeb have promised they'll introduce geo-filtered
> versions of Shoutcast MP3 streams for the UK,
> to anger down frustrated Radio 5 Live (& Sports Xtra)
> listeners - nothing concrete has yet come to my knowledge...
> What you can do until then:
> 1. Contact Linn and investigate whether a firmware update
> for your device has been made available, that would
> enable AppleHLS "reception" - the BBC's AppleHLS
> new streams come in UK and non-UK varieties...
> 2. Use a different medium to listen to those AppleHLS
> streams in the UK; obviously iDevices (by Apple)
> are supported, but you can use software players
> on your computer, too...
> GiP 2.92 supports the streaming to MPlayer/VLC
> of those streams (--type=liveradio --modes=hlsaac)
> My summary above is based on the relevant BBC Internet
> Blog entries:
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/internet/entries/2ff95543-7547-4b2d-9305-563428
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/internet/entries/d031b300-721a-4df5-8506-723303f2887e
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/internet/entries/234a65f0-89c1-489c-b6e9-55d2de932e53
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/internet/entries/296ac283-54df-4c21-a38f-8cc1fa8731c8
> Regards,
> Vangelis
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Hi, just to report that I am advised the patch is now in place and the 
Linn DS devices are good for present BBC streams.  Updated my systems 
and so far so good with the news this morning.
Thanks again for your erudite, helpful and instructive reply.  I always 
learn a bit more from your excellent posts.  Sadly my retention is not 
what it was!!!

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