OT Live Streaming Radio 4 News

Budgie ajebay at errichel.co.uk
Wed May 27 13:17:13 PDT 2015

On 27/05/15 20:51, Vangelis forthnet wrote:
> On Tue May 26 10:11:05 BST 2015, Budgie wrote:
>> I listen to Radio 4 using a networked Linn device
>> The Linn device offers various radio channels directly
>> On several occasions recently,
>> the news stream has been interrupted and
>> all I get is a recorded loop telling me that
>> "due to rights restrictions
>> the programme is not available."
>> Is the problem with BBC or Linn?
> On Tue May 26 10:36:25 BST 2015, Derek Kaye wrote:
>> but perhaps someone with a more detailed
>> knowledge of how the streaming works can
> On Tue May 26 21:59:59 BST 2015, Christopher Woods wrote:
>> Some highlights or clips from sporting events
>> may not come with requisite rights to be broadcast online,
>> even when part of a news bulletin
> Hello Budgie, Derek et al :-)
> Earlier this year (I think 't was the end of February),
> the BBC killed off the Windows Media Audio (WMA)
> streams both for Listen Live (Live Radio) and Audio-
> on-Demand; this was an announced move, so no surprise there...
> What wasn't foretold was they'd also switch off the
> Listen Live "Shoutcast AAC" streams...
> Most Internet Radios and other networked devices
> (especially if somewhat old) relied heavily upon those
> discontinued streams; another important detail was
> that those streams were available at two different "flavours":
> 1. UK-only, fed only to UK IPs; this version included
> content (usually sports) with UK-only broadcast rights.
> 2. Overseas, served to the rest of the world.
> That was offered in a significantly lower bandwidth
> and all UK-only content was excluded, blanketed out
> by the "due to rights restrictions... " loop you mentioned.
> The beeb and their "Audio Factory" department have
> replaced the old streams with new ones, employing the
> newer "AppleHLS" streaming methodology (chunked streaming
> over HTTP). HOWEVER, in their infinite wisdom, by doing
> so have effectively cut off all older devices with
> firmware that doesn't support HLS. They claim they had
> warned the main manufacturers of the scheduled changes
> to HLS that would require firmware updates, but there's
> a big controversy over who's to blame for the predicament
> many Internet device owners found themselves into...
> I haven't caught up on this, but at the time of the
> change only some new models of the "Pure" brand were
> HLS enabled...
> As an interim fix (backward compatibility) and only
> for Live Radio, the BBC have generated Shoutcast MP3
> streams, compatible with the majority of older devices.
> HOWEVER, as a cost cutting measure, there exists only one
> universal stream for each BBC Radio Station, @ 128kbps,
> for both the UK & International listeners.
> In a few words, the UK users receive the same stream as overseas
> ones, i.e. the very stream which is devoid of UK-only
> copyrighted content...
> After the intervention of the BBC Radio 3 controller,
> a HD (UK-only) shoutcast AAC stream was reinstated,
> but only until this year's Proms...
> No solution as yet for AOD for "older" devices.
> Those "older" devices, after the cessation of WMA
> and ShoutcastAAC, have fallen back automatically
> (via stream aggregators) to the Shoutcast MP3
> live streams.
> It is my gut feeling your Linn device is using this
> "international" MP3 stream when connecting to Radio 4;
> as Christopher said, content for which no int'l
> streaming rights have been negotiated by the BBC
> is excluded...
> The beeb have promised they'll introduce geo-filtered
> versions of Shoutcast MP3 streams for the UK,
> to anger down frustrated Radio 5 Live (& Sports Xtra)
> listeners - nothing concrete has yet come to my knowledge...
> What you can do until then:
> 1. Contact Linn and investigate whether a firmware update
> for your device has been made available, that would
> enable AppleHLS "reception" - the BBC's AppleHLS
> new streams come in UK and non-UK varieties...
> 2. Use a different medium to listen to those AppleHLS
> streams in the UK; obviously iDevices (by Apple)
> are supported, but you can use software players
> on your computer, too...
> GiP 2.92 supports the streaming to MPlayer/VLC
> of those streams (--type=liveradio --modes=hlsaac)
> My summary above is based on the relevant BBC Internet
> Blog entries:
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/internet/entries/2ff95543-7547-4b2d-9305-563428
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/internet/entries/d031b300-721a-4df5-8506-723303f2887e
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/internet/entries/234a65f0-89c1-489c-b6e9-55d2de932e53
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/internet/entries/296ac283-54df-4c21-a38f-8cc1fa8731c8
> Regards,
> Vangelis
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Hi Vangelis,
Many thanks for your helpful and detailed explanation.

I shall raise the question on the Linn group.  I am sure they will sort 
it out as they frequently issue updates and I think the Linn devices are 
linux based so easily fixed.  Will post any further info when I get it.

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