[wireless-regdb] Question about 5.8 GHz in E.U.

Mathieu Peyréga mathieu.peyrega at gmail.com
Wed Oct 18 07:00:07 PDT 2017


unless i'm wrong, it seems that those questions about 5GHz band in EU 
(in general) ad in France (in particular) have not received "official" 

Best regards,


Le 13/09/2017 à 15:55, Maximilian Engelhardt a écrit :
> Hi,
> I sent the patch to add the Frequency range from 5725 to 5875 MHz in Germany
> so I can give you some background on this.
> What I'm writing is only valid for Germany, but since it's all based on
> European regulations it's probably very similar in other European countries.
> In Germany there are three bands allowed for wireless LAN (WLAN) usage in the
> 5 GHz band  [1]:
> 5150 - 5250 MHz (indoor only)
> 5250 - 5350 MHz (indoor only)
> 5470 - 5725 MHz (indoor and outdoor)
> However the 5470 - 5725 MHz band is only allowed for fixed outdoor
> installations (this is not stated directly in the legal document but I have
> been told it's interpreted in this way. It's however explicitly stated that
> usage for aircraft communication is not allowed). So for for non-fixed outdoor
> setups none of these 5 GHz bands can be used.
> Additionally to the official wireless LAN bands there are short range devices
> (SRD) bands. These are similar to the ISM bands and often share the same
> frequency and power regulations, but unlike the ISM bands which are only
> allowed for industrial, scientific or medical applications the SRD bands can be
> used for data communication.
> There exists a frequency range from 5725 - 5875 MHz as SRD band (also an ISM
> band) with a maximum power of 25 mW [2]. While this is not specifically
> regulated for wireless LAN usage, is can be legally transmitted in this band
> following the power restriction. There are also no restrictions to indoor or
> outdoor usage. So this is the only 5GHz band in Germany that can be legally
> used for non-fixed outdoor equipment using wireless LAN.
> Power on this band is limited but there may be applications where this is not
> a problem, e.g. if you have line of sight communication or don't need to
> transfer much data.
> Because of this I see no reason why this frequency range should be removed
> from the database. It has advantages over the other 5 GHz bands and it can be
> legally used. I would find it annoying not being able to use it while I'm
> legally allowed to and not having another option available.
> Regards,
> Maxi
> [1] https://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Sachgebiete/
> Telekommunikation/Unternehmen_Institutionen/Frequenzen/Allgemeinzuteilungen/
> 2010_07_WLAN_5GHz_pdf.pdf
> [2] https://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Sachgebiete/
> Telekommunikation/Unternehmen_Institutionen/Frequenzen/Allgemeinzuteilungen/
> 2014_69_SRD_pdf.pdf
> On Freitag, 8. September 2017 00:15:34 CEST Ryan Mounce wrote:
>> On 7 September 2017 at 23:33, Mathieu Peyréga <mathieu.peyrega at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>> unfortunately, my wifi skills are not (yet ?) allowing me to track further
>>> than what the "iw reg get" command tells me (confirmed by some off the
>>> shelf Wifi analyzer sofwares).
>>> Do you have pointers/tutorial to help me doing that ?
>> Try this
>> # find interface name
>> iw dev
>> # perform scan on interface
>> iw dev wlan0 scan -u
>> This previously dumped the country IE in a nice readable form, however
>> it no longer does on my device running LEDE master so you may not have
>> any luck depending on how new your distro is.
>> Typically for this task I would use monitor mode + Wireshark or my
>> favoured (sadly proprietary) WiFi surveying app, however I can only
>> provide advise for macOS.
>>> Further reading your answer, my guess is that DJI has complied to UNII-3
>>> choice. At least on their website Spark spec page, they clearly give the
>>> good max power figures and make the difference between FCC and EU areas.
>>> This leads to my concern about why not adding the matching rules in the DB
>>> for EU countries that have transposed it into their laws.
>>> Is this regulatory DB supposed to strictly reflect the current state of
>>> local regulations or doe it also endorse a higher level of
>>> "responsability"
>>> in order to prevent issues with non complient devices as I understand your
>>> fears ?
>> The regdb is only used in practice for 802.11 rather than as a
>> universal dictionary for radio regulations. My personal opinion is
>> that it should first reflect local regulations, and then subsequently
>> reflect established industry conventions that are more restrictive. In
>> this instance, the industry convention appears to be disabling the
>> UNII-3 range in Europe and I happen to agree more for practical
>> reasons than any sense of 'responsibility'.
>>> Regards
>>> Le 07/09/2017 à 15:44, Ryan Mounce a écrit :
>>>> You can see the 'FR' Country Code, can you see the full 802.11d
>>>> Country Information IE that is broadcast by the DJI drone?
>>>> I can see how this situation has come about. In much of the world
>>>> including China (DJI) and the USA (DJI's largest international market)
>>>> the 'UNII-3' equivalent range is a simple default choice with high
>>>> power and outdoor use permitted, with no DFS to worry about.
>>>> Europe is not so simple. In roughly descending order of device
>>>> compatibility.
>>>> 2.4GHz has power restrictions compared to USA/China, and is polluted
>>>> in every country.
>>>> UNII-1 is indoor only and should require the user to confirm they are
>>>> indoors (for a device like a drone that is likely to be used outdoors,
>>>> unlike a home WiFi AP)
>>>> UNII-2 adds DFS and TPC restrictions to UNII-1, quite restrictive.
>>>> UNII-2E is fairly quiet and allows more generous power, however DFS is
>>>> still a consideration and a portable device like a drone would have to
>>>> scan for at least 60 seconds before broadcasting in this band.
>>>> UNII-3 has the strictest power restrictions of all, and thus the most
>>>> limited range.
>>>> So it seems that DJI have simply ignored this altogether, and are
>>>> broadcasting in a poorly supported frequency band in Europe with
>>>> either a very weak short range signal or a very strong signal in
>>>> violation of regulations. Either way, this is very much their problem
>>>> (and unfortunately also their customers').
>>> --
>>> tel : +33 (0)6 87 30 83 59
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