[vote] Create private mailing list for OpenWrt committers

[Fernando Frediani]

Fair enough Hauke.
Thanks for elaborating it. Makes more sense and convinced me.

Regards

On 05/04/2025 12:29, Hauke Mehrtens wrote:
> On 4/5/25 00:45, Fernando Frediani wrote:
>> Hello
>>
>> Can you elaborate more on about what specific subjects and 
>> conversations have to be done on this new e-mail list that cannot be 
>> done on either devel or adm lists ? I am on both for over a decade 
>> and have almost never seen any issues with the subjects that are 
>> discussed there either been development or adm related.
>
> The topics discussed on -devel and -adm are fine and it should stay 
> there. All votes should stay on -adm. There is not discussion coming 
> to my mind which we had on -devel or -adm which I think should better 
> have been done on a private list.
>
> The Problem from my point of view are the discussions which are not on 
> -adm or -devel, but which are done in private mail conversations which 
> a subset of the OpenWrt committers. You are probably not aware of 
> them, and I am probably only involved in some of them.
>
> > Perhaps a creation of a third list > should be better considered if 
> really necessary and dig deeper into find
>> out what exactly topics really cannot be discussed on both or 
>> publicly that should be restricted to this new one proposed.
>
> For example discussions about people. When someone post unappropriated 
> content somewhere and we would discus about deleting it and banning 
> this person. The real content might be gone from the internet, but the 
> discussion stays and might harm the person still in 10 years when their
> potential new boss finds it.
>
> When we interact with some other organizations or companies which are 
> not so open. We still need to build up an opinion on our side and talk 
> about pros and cons of different options.
>
> The example I gave in the initial mail. When someone contacts me about 
> OpenWrt. I  do not want to put mails from people onto a public mailing 
> list without their explicit consent. I have no problem to add the 
> internal list into CC.
>
>> Even though some of the people who are subscribed to both lists don't 
>> have voting power on decisions - and nothing wrong with that - they 
>> follow and participate on discussions and may have significant inputs 
>> that can certainly suit to those who vote to better decide.
>>
>> Regarding the meetings coordination what would be the difference from 
>> the current adm list to another one if some may not have the self 
>> organization to read and filter the emails accordingly ? If the issue 
>> is people's interest of capacity to better organize I doubt a new 
>> list would be necessary to resolve that.
>>
>> I would rather explore better the need to create a new mail email and 
>> try to use the 2 existing ones for each specific subject.
>>
>> Best regards
>> Fernando
>
> Hauke
>
>>
>> On 03/04/2025 17:49, Hauke Mehrtens wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I propose creating a new mailing list that only OpenWrt committers 
>>> can read. All OpenWrt committers should be subscribed by default, 
>>> and it should be possible to send messages to the list without 
>>> requiring a subscription. Additionally, this list should replace the 
>>> current abuse at openwrt.org and contact at openwrt.org addresses handling 
>>> with freescout.openwrt.org.
>>>
>>> This would be similar to the old openwrt-hackers at lists.openwrt.org
>>>
>>> Please vote Yes or +1 if you support the creation of this list.
>>>
>>> I will conclude the vote on 26th April 2025.
>>>
>>>
>>> Rationale:
>>>
>>> Currently, some of the project's internal communication happens 
>>> through direct emails, Signal, or small private groups. While some 
>>> discussions should remain private, they shouldn’t be limited to a 
>>> highly selective subset of individuals. A dedicated internal mailing 
>>> list would provide a structured way to handle sensitive topics 
>>> without resorting to fragmented, ad-hoc communication.
>>>
>>> Public discussions and voting should still take place on 
>>> openwrt-adm, and key management topics (e.g., release planning) 
>>> should remain there. However, we may also want to consider merging 
>>> openwrt-adm and openwrt-devel to streamline communication, but the 
>>> merger is out of scope of this vote.
>>>
>>> From an operational standpoint, responding to external inquiries is 
>>> often challenging. I hesitate to CC a public mailing list without 
>>> explicit permission, but I’d have no issue including a private list. 
>>> This would improve transparency while maintaining appropriate 
>>> confidentiality.
>>>
>>> Additionally, organizing OpenWrt meetings via direct emails to ~40 
>>> committers is inefficient and prone to missing recipients. A 
>>> dedicated mailing list would simplify coordination.
>>>
>>> Finally, freescout.openwrt.org was broken for about six months, 
>>> causing all incoming emails from this period to be lost. While it is 
>>> now functional, it appears nobody is reading the mails. A dedicated 
>>> private list would provide a more reliable channel for handling such 
>>> inquiries.
>>> We are getting more than one spam mail per day on freescout, the 
>>> spam filter on the mailling list is working much better.
>>>
>>> Hauke
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> openwrt-adm mailing list
>>> openwrt-adm at lists.openwrt.org
>>> https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-adm
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> openwrt-adm mailing list
>> openwrt-adm at lists.openwrt.org
>> https://lists.openwrt.org/mailman/listinfo/openwrt-adm
>