Seedbox & GiP

Peter Corlett abuse at
Thu Mar 26 05:58:35 PDT 2015

On 25 Mar 2015, at 20:21, Peter S Kirk <peter.kirk at> wrote:
> On 25 Mar 2015 at 4:16, Vangelis forthnet Vangelis forthnet 
> <northmedia1 at> wrote:
>> I guess Dutch IPs are very popular with 
>> Seedboxes because of the relaxed 
>> file-sharing policies that are (still?) 
>> in force in Holland!

The law changed recently. Previously it was illegal to upload but legal to download whatever the provenance of the data, with the rights-holders compensated by a media levy. The Dutch government seemed quite happy with this state of affairs but got sued about the media levy so went "fine, downloading is also illegal then", no doubt knowing full well that it will be enforced with the same amount of vigour as their existing drug prohibition laws.

However, one can basically get away with running a small-scale seedbox there not because it's legal (since it never was, really) but because it's not worth the effort to chase a competent adversary through the legal systems of several countries based on evidence that's so flimsy it's likely to make the judge turn to irritated sarcasm.

> I was not aware of that, I often wondered why OVH is there when UK has 
> bigger "pipes", that explains it.

Much of the UK's Internet infrastructure is concentrated in data centres and other hastily-erected barns in both Docklands and even more expensive parts of the capital, with bits of wet string trailing out to the rest of the country. So you can either have punitive server rental with virtually free bandwidth, or cheap rental out in the sticks but with eye-watering per-byte charges. I think this basically comes from London-centricism plus an artefact of BT pricing in the mid-90s making it not cost-effective for ISPs to build-out regional infrastructure.

Other countries have noticed that there are cities outside of their capital and distribute their infrastructure a bit more sensibly. Spill a cup of tea in Amsterdam and the city sinks under the ensuing flood, so you can understand why the Dutch are a bit more interested in resilience. (Let's not talk about the frailty of the Thames Barrier and the low-lying Docklands, eh?)

Anyway, OVH is French, not Dutch, so in theory they would have to pay attention to the law of both countries. In practice, they don't seem to be paying that much attention to either if the amount of spam I see coming from their network is any guide.

> Reason VPS is in Holland is price: initially Euro 30 pa, now discounted.

The Dutch love a bargain, but that price can't possibly be sustainable.

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